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Location of the Garden of Eden. #3118
Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:16 PM
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Hello, Ladies and Gentleman, and others (meaning our alien friends who may or may not be in the reading audience):

I thought I would raise a question with everyone. I have, throughout my life, be very curious as to where the EXACT location of the Garden of Eden might be. There have been NUMEROUS attempts to find the Garden, and many theories advanced as to its present (or former, depending on your theological point of view) location. Since two of the four rivers mentioned in the Genesis account, the Tigris and the Euphrates, still exist, some have located the Garden in South-Eastern Mesopotamia, down near (or possibly in) the Persian Gulf. Some suggest that it would have been up at the other end in modern-day Turkey. A few have advanced African theories of location, either to further advance Black Supremacy or to try and reconcile the Story of Creation with modern scientific theories (that are admittedly beginning to be questioned by some) that H0mo sapiens sapiens originated in Africa. Some have suggested Northern Europe or Atlantis, either to advance a White Supremacist concept or simply because that is where they believe it to be, or to have been.

It gets even weirder. One fellow suggested Florida, and that the snake was either a Communist or supporter of the welfare state (this was in 1956 at the height of the Cold War and McCarthyism). Joseph Smith, Jr, the founder of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (more commonly called the Mormons) believed through revelation (if you are a Mormon) that Independence, Missouri was the place. The first President of Boston College (and Methodist minister) William F. Warren believed that it was at the North Pole, and wrote a VERY lengthy book on the subject that I shall be reading shortly, along with my other reading engagements. Christopher Columbus believed that modern-day Venezuela was the place, when he found the Orinoco, and saw that rivers joined up with it in the Orinoco Plain. Then again, our friend Columbus also believed the Earth to be shaped like a pear, so, despite his undeniable achievements (he may not have discovered a continent that was already inhabited, and Leif Eriksson was the first European to visit, but Columbus WAS the first European to stay, and it was he who opened the New World to Europe, rather than Eriksson, whose journey was essentially ignored), perhaps his thoughts on the subject ought to be taken with some caution. Others have suggested the South Pacific Islands (Tahiti in particular, and to be fair, the women there are perhaps the most beautiful women that God created, and they certainly didn't mind advertising that fact to the first Europeans to visit [and to be even more fair, they had never been introduced to the Garden of Eden story, and European attitudes about being naked. To them, running around in one's birthday suit was a perfectly natural thing to do]!) and yet other places.

So, to get down to business: What do you all think of all this? Is there anyone here who believes, as I do, that there WAS a real Garden of Eden? And if so, where WAS it? And if you DON'T believe there was a real Garden of Eden, chime in and tell us, and (diplomatically) tell us why you don't believe it. I look forward to hearing from you on the topic.

A note to the Censors. I attempted to use the scientific name for human beings in this post, and found that the first word of that name was bleeped out because, although the scientific name comes from the Latin, and the word means "mankind" in the sense of all humans, the species entire, the automatic censor device assumed I was using the word from the Greek meaning "male". The word as derived from Greek is commonly used as an insult directed at persons who either are, or are perceived to be, gay. In order to make sure that the word WAS included in my text, I used the "0" key instead of the "o" key to type the second letter, to fool the automatic censor device. HOWEVER, my intent is NOT to use the word as an insult derived from Greek but rather, in the Latin sense meaning "mankind". Thank you.

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Re: Location of the Garden of Eden. [Re: Diego] #3161
Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:16 AM
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Well some people may think it's an insult, but intelligent know what you are saying.Yes I believe in the garden,I believe in God, and I believe it's in the Gulf. Water levels have risen in the past many feet ,because of the polar caps have melted as you know.So right off the coast?Satellite pictures have been taken of the area,dry river beds have been discovered and do meet with the other two that still flow today,so possibly the graden is underwater? So therefore I believe it may be here,where the experts say it is.Biblical scholars where in on the investigation, they belive that's where it was. Acient alien theroist belive it was a ship or a genetic experiment by aliens, and the idea of a Garden of Eden was planted in our minds,so what truth you believe is your truth. I for one believe in God as you do ,but if he created life on this planet would he not create life on another planet? What is your position on this statement? Thank you for your time.


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Re: Location of the Garden of Eden. [Re: MIB1] #3165
Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:42 AM
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To answer your question briefly, as I am limited for time, I certainly believe in the potential for life on other planets, if that is what you are asking. Absolutely! In fact, I consider it almost a certainty.

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Re: Location of the Garden of Eden. [Re: Diego] #3168
Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:24 AM
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I believe that God put life on other planets. We are definitely not alone.The universe is quite large infinite in fact,so with so many galaxies to work with, he must of done it.This is something I believe strongly in.We aren't the only life in this infinite universe .So go figure, his hand is evolving this universe, no matter what other people think.Even Xeno believes in "gods"and he's an alien.God has had his hand in so many civilizations and societies .His only son may not have been only on Earth,.He has been everywhere! May not have been crucified on other planets, unlike our stupid ancestors. The word spread throughout the universe, and I don't mind helping it.The truth is out there, we know it.If God populated this world with his children why not other planets.


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Re: Location of the Garden of Eden. [Re: MIB1] #3196
Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:43 PM
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I came back ,can't stay away from this thread, so you guys have a truce or what.What do you think of my last post. Did He put life on other planets .We know he did here so what are your opinion on this post?Thanks for your insight.


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Re: Location of the Garden of Eden. [Re: MIB1] #3199
Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:46 PM
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I dont have time to elaborate because k am about to vo into a meeting.

But...

The bible says exactly where it was... where the 4 rivers meet. Except, they didnt necessarily think of north and south as we do. If you flip the poles, you find where the Tigris and Euphrates meet.

If you look at Google earth you will find two fossil river beds from rivers which have dried up. One on the left and one on the right.

Then you will find a big body of water that flows into the ocean.

Account for sea levels rising, and the mountain range which kept the water out of the basin, eroding, and the whole area filling with water, and what do you get?

That's a little quiz for you guys. I'll leave it to you to fill in places and names. But..... it's all there to find.

But.... it's now under water.... what the bible says was the MOUTH of the rivers was actually the end where they meet...

If you put those things into place it actually makes sense.

Another hint.... it was Mesopotamia....

Sorry for typos and grammar. No time no time. Have fun.

Last edited by UFO-Hunter; Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:48 PM.

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Re: Location of the Garden of Eden. [Re: Spock] #3200
Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:55 PM
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Well, like I said, some believe that the Garden of England was (is?) located under the Persian Gulf.

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Re: Location of the Garden of Eden. [Re: MIB1] #3201
Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:52 PM
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Originally Posted by MIB1
I came back ,can't stay away from this thread, so you guys have a truce or what.


To answer your first question, if you check that particular thread (the one about Mars), please note that I have OFFERED a truce. As to whether he will accept said offer, I do not know.

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What do you think of my last post. Did He put life on other planets .We know he did here so what are your opinion on this post?Thanks for your insight.


As for this, yes, I personally believe that God put life on other planets. I find it very difficult to believe that in this HUGE universe, we are the ONLY residents of it. As XENU has correctly pointed out, Europa is known to have an ocean, very much like ours, beneath its very cold surface. It is known, or at least suspected, to be warm like ours, although I am not certain of the science behind how it stays that way. XENU might be able to explain that, as he does appear to have some knowledge of that topic.

It is very likely that Europa houses some kind of life in its ocean. As to whether that life is intelligent, I have absolutely no idea, though I doubt it. As I indicated in that thread, unless it is whale-like, or porpoise-like, it is likely not as intelligent as we are.

As for other regions (not counting Mars, which I think may also harbor life, or may at one time have harboured it, but we are discussing that in the other thread, so I shall not discuss it further here) in our Solar System, it is doubtful that life exists, though it is theoretically possible, in the sense that we are referring to life as WE KNOW IT. I always ask the question: What about life as we DON'T know it? I mean, theoretically, there could be flying life-forms in the clouds of Jupiter that breathe methane and love the heat. I mean, ok, I doubt it, but we must acknowledge that God is great, and can make any kind of life-form he likes. He is NOT constrained by the ideas that make sense to us.

Now, as to life outside the Solar System, I am almost certain that it exists. I say "almost", simply because I have never met an alien before. Ergo, I cannot say I am CERTAIN that life exists on exo-planets. But I do believe that life, like us, as we know it, is highly likely. And as for life as we do NOT know it, well, you can probably guess my answer to that.

I am not sure that answers your question, but it should help a little, at any rate.

Next: WHY am I so certain that life exists outside of Earth? Well, simply put, I find it rather absurd to think that God decided that we, and we alone, were fit to enjoy his Creation. The Creation is vast, and I see no reasons why humans alone should enjoy it all by ourselves. That actually sounds rather boring. I hope that one day we shall be able to meet other intelligent beings from inside and/or outside the Solar System. If there is no one else to meet (unlikely), then it truly is a boring Universe, and God is some kind of Cosmic Jerk to leave us all alone here. But I don't believe that. So there you are.

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Re: Location of the Garden of Eden. [Re: Diego] #3202
Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:17 PM
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Sorry Diego, I didnt have time to read everything.
I had 5 or 10 minutes to kill at the time.

But yeah.

The question has always been where the other two rivers were, because they don't exist currently.

Was it the Mishan and Pishan?

I saw a documentary where they talked about a group of people who went looking for the garden and came across the two rivers on Google earth. They found that they would have met under the Persian gulf. They weren't allowed into some of the countries to do their research because of the ongoing war, but others let them in. They were attempting to find settlements along the banks of the old rivers. I honestly don't remember if they found anything.

They also found that where the Persian gulf meets the ocean, there is a mountain range under the water, which originally kept the water out. At some point in time, once the sea levels rose enough, it cut through the mountains and valleys and flooded the whole area - most likely within a matter of days, killing everyone in it's path and destroying any settlements which would have been there. I dont recall the time frames.



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Re: Location of the Garden of Eden. [Re: Spock] #3204
Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:31 PM
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I believe the four were the Hiddekel (Tigris), Euphrates, Gihon, and the Pison (or Pishon, depending on translation). And the argument certainly makes sense that the Garden would have been in Mesopotamia. At the same time, one of those rivers (I forget which) flowed through the land of Cush, generally taken as Ethiopia. For such a river to end in Mesopotamia implies considerable length. Not impossible, but not easy either.

On the other hand, there IS a land called Cush up in modern Turkey. If Genesis is referring to that, the Garden could be in Mesopotamia or Turkey.

Another thing: If below the sea, then it no longer exists. Could Eden really be destroyed? Or does it still exist, with a cherub holding a flaming sword barring the way to the Tree of Life? Interesting question!

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Re: Location of the Garden of Eden. [Re: Diego] #3556
Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:08 PM
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So, back to this Garden of Eden business. Could the Garden still exist, with an Angel holding a Flaming Sword guarding the way to the Tree of Life? I am reading a book right now that seems to think we can find the geographical location of the place.

Now, it is one thing to find its geographical location. The question, are we finding the Garden of Eden presently, or where it formerly was? UFO HUNTER has suggested that the Garden of Eden was (past tense) located in an area that is now beneath the Persian Gulf. His use of tense implies that the Garden no longer exists, as does his description of the fact that water rushed in over the mountains protecting the place, killing everything that was there.

Now, that is CERTAINLY a possibility. I don't dispute that he may (key word being "may") be right. But I do have a few questions that I think are relevant.

(1). Is it possible to destroy the Garden of Eden, by water, flood, or any other earthly happening? I mean, seriously, an Angel was put there with a flaming sword to guard the way to the Tree of Life. Could one later come along and destroy that? I suppose God could, but why would he want to? Now, I suppose it could still exist under water, protected from the elements by God himself. I do NOT presume to know how God might do that, but he might.

(2). If the above scenario in (1) is too extreme a concept, then perhaps the Garden is somewhere above ground. In that case, since the Bible gives a geographic place for it, it has to be locatable somewhere. Now, as to whether any human could ever enter it if he found it is debatable. I suspect not, as there is, after all, an Angel with a flaming sword guarding the way to it. It seems likely that we would meet that Angel if we ever found the way to Eden.

(3). If the Garden actually exists, on the ground somewhere, that seems to give us two likely locations for it: One, Turkey, where the Tigris and the Euphrates start, and two, down near the Persian Gulf, where they come together. The latter seems the more likely of explanations, since the writer of Genesis, Moses, says that a Garden was planted EASTWARDS in Eden. Since Moses was an Israelite, one would assume that means that Eden is East of Israel, and Turkey does not exactly fit that definition.

(4). Ultimately, that puts the Garden of Eden in modern-day Iraq, which is hardly the safest country to go visit nowadays. One day, however, I would like to put on a pith helmet and go hiking around that region in the hope of finding the Garden, or at least the Angel. Does anybody else have any ideas as to where the Garden might be today, and can they give evidence of what they are suggesting? I am curious.

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Re: Location of the Garden of Eden. [Re: Diego] #3557
Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:30 PM
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Isn't in the deepest of you heart where your god hidden what you are suppose to be looking for?

Also were not humans kicked out of the garden with no return? If it is the case, what would do humans government or military do if they find it? Raid it?

I do not really believe it actually exist but I hope for you guys that it is somewhere out there and that you find what you are seeking! But meanwhile I am not into looking for it since I am seeking deep inside of me the key to go back where I am from: The cosmos.

I wish you success in your quest for the ultimate garden referring to your religion and beliefs!


May your god bless all of you!


Plus qu'hier et moins que demain / More than yesterday and less than tomorrow
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Re: Location of the Garden of Eden. [Re: Xeno] #3561
Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Xeno
Isn't in the deepest of you heart where your god hidden what you are suppose to be looking for?


This is not in dispute. Nevertheless, the location of the Garden of Eden is still a relevant topic, for historical reasons, and for apologetics.

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Also were not humans kicked out of the garden with no return? If it is the case, what would do humans government or military do if they find it? Raid it?


I don't know that the Garden would be "raidable", for lack of a better term. I think the Angel guarding the way to the Tree of Life with the Flaming Sword would be stronger than any military attempt to raid the Garden.

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I do not really believe it actually exist but I hope for you guys that it is somewhere out there and that you find what you are seeking!


I think it has to exist. The Garden certainly existed at one time. The Bible makes that clear. And it doesn't seem to be the sort of thing you can destroy.

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But meanwhile I am not into looking for it since I am seeking deep inside of me the key to go back where I am from: The cosmos.
.

Your priorities are different, and that is ok.

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I wish you success in your quest for the ultimate garden referring to your religion and beliefs!

This is, of course, the most important thing. Even the search for the actual, physical Garden of Eden should ultimately be with the goal of uplifting our beliefs and communion with God.

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May your god bless all of you!

And the same to you, I am sure.

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Re: Location of the Garden of Eden. [Re: Diego] #3562
Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:14 PM
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What if the bible was not legit about the garden? Outside of this book, what else is giving any intel about it?

I am pretty sure it is well guarded by angel or angel maybe even an archangel I was not really meaning there would be a successful raid from human forces but seeing modern mankind, do you really think humans has business where they haven't destroy or polluate the place?

I am not a theist, not humanly talking but I have doubt such place exist... And if I find out it does and where it is, you have to know that I would never help a human to get in it with dirty hands and brong toxicity...

I believe in gods but not into christian or catholic one because I was told by my ET parents that we have other deity that we give our praying, faith and soul. I was just not told amything about it...


Plus qu'hier et moins que demain / More than yesterday and less than tomorrow
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Re: Location of the Garden of Eden. [Re: Xeno] #3563
Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Xeno
What if the bible was not legit about the garden? Outside of this book, what else is giving any intel about it?

Well, the Muslim Qur'an speaks about the Garden of Eden as well, as does the Jewish Talmud, and OTHER texts that were not selected as part of the Hebrew Canon of Scripture.

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I am pretty sure it is well guarded by angel or angel maybe even an archangel I was not really meaning there would be a successful raid from human forces but seeing modern mankind, do you really think humans has business where they haven't destroy or polluate the place?

Modern humans are a mixed bunch, XENO, you know that, from your experience on this site. We are not ALL the raiding type. I mean, I suppose we ALL have, at least to a limited degree, an Indiana Jones-like way of thinking. But that is far different than a "lets go raid the place with our military" way of thinking, although I do NOT deny that there are plenty of humans with that mentality as well.

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I am not a theist, not humanly talking but I have doubt such place exist... And if I find out it does and where it is, you have to know that I would never help a human to get in it with dirty hands and brong toxicity...

If we were ABLE to find the Garden on our own, we probably would NOT need help further researching it.

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I believe in gods

Then you are in fact theistic.

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but not into christian or catholic one because I was told by my ET parents that we have other deity that we give our praying, faith and soul. I was just not told amything about it...

Given your, shall we say, rather unique perspective, I would NOT expect you to believe in the Christian God.

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Re: Location of the Garden of Eden. [Re: Diego] #3578
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:24 AM
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Interesting that other books talk about the garden! I did not know that, we always have something to learn it seems. That add credibility of beliefs of existence of the garden! Thanks for your great historical and theological knowledge Diego!

Im a believer not a theologist. For me theology is the study of religion not the belief of it. I knew a theologist that was not believing. He just liked studying religion on a historical point of view with their impact on human societies. I believe!

Christian god? Well I will be nice and say it simple, he exist, it is just not the god giving me my spiritual power. Your god would call me a monster because of my hidden nature and what I am. I rely on alien god...


Plus qu'hier et moins que demain / More than yesterday and less than tomorrow
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Re: Location of the Garden of Eden. [Re: Xeno] #3582
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:28 AM
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What is the garden of Eden really?

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Re: Location of the Garden of Eden. [Re: Xeno] #3717
Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Xeno
Interesting that other books talk about the garden! I did not know that, we always have something to learn it seems. That add credibility of beliefs of existence of the garden! Thanks for your great historical and theological knowledge Diego!

You are welcome. I agree; the fact that more than just the Bible speaks of the Garden of Eden does imply a greater likelihood of its truth.

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Im a believer not a theologist.

Keep in mind that a "theist", one who believes in "theism" (which is the system of philosophy that acknowledges a higher power), is different than a "theologian", one who studies "theology", which is the study of theism. One can certainly be a theologian without being a theist. I consider myself to be both a theist (as in, not an "atheist", one who does NOT believe in a higher power) and a theologian.

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For me theology is the study of religion not the belief of it. I knew a theologist that was not believing. He just liked studying religion on a historical point of view with their impact on human societies. I believe!

See above.

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Christian god? Well I will be nice and say it simple, he exist, it is just not the god giving me my spiritual power. Your god would call me a monster because of my hidden nature and what I am. I rely on alien god...

Allow me to ask you my friend, is not God simply God? As a Christian, I believe that there is one God. That God can be defined as the Triune God, Father, Son, Holy Ghost. In India, he is Vishnu, the Creator God, who incarnated in Krishna. In Islam he is known as Allah. But there can really only be one God.

You cannot have two Creator Gods. Only one God can be the Creator of the Universe and all that therein lives, moves, and has its being. The God you worship is the same as the God I worship, even if he is perceived differently.

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Re: Location of the Garden of Eden. [Re: frankie85] #3718
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Originally Posted by frankie85
What is the garden of Eden really?

The Garden of Eden is that physical place wherein man was first placed after his creation by God. There is also of course, the Spiritual Eden. Some suggest that the Spiritual Eden and the Garden of Eden are the same place, and others suggest that we are referring to two different things. Those who argue that the Spiritual Eden and the Garden of Eden are two separate things suggest that we could never get back to the physical place known as the Garden of Eden, which, according to them, may have been destroyed. Those of us who suggest (and I consider myself one of these) that the Garden and Spiritual Eden are one and the same suggest that it would not be possible to destroy Eden, since God placed an Angel there, with a flaming sword to protect the way to the Tree of Life.

Furthermore, the idea of destroying Eden is impossible BECAUSE it contains the Tree of Life, which is a literal tree, as is the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. To destroy these things would imply that you could destroy that which is created by God precisely. That would be like destroying the Earth itself, in a sense. Not possible.

Of course, that raises the question of, could the Earth be destroyed? I guess in that sense it could (if you created a starship large enough to produce a weapon powerful enough to do it). Would THAT destroy the Garden of Eden? Yes, in that sense it would. So what do I mean when I say you cannot destroy the Garden of Eden?

Remember that man is the Lord of Creation, in the sense that God gave him dominion of the birds of the air, the fish of the sea, and all that which creepeth upon the face of the Earth. So in that sense, we ARE capable of destroying the Earth AS MEN. But GOD will not destroy the Earth AS GOD. In that sense, one could argue that MAN could destroy the Garden of Eden, but not that GOD could. I don't know if I am making much sense.

Ultimately, can man do himself in, and his home? Yes. Will God do that to either man or man's home? No. And that is where it ends.

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Re: Location of the Garden of Eden. [Re: Diego] #3725
Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:21 AM
Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:21 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
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Alberta
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Alberta
I am polytheist Diego, I do not believe in god, I believe in gods. Thanks for telling me the right word for what I meant, theist vs theologian. I believe in scientific creation of the universe that is not necessary divine but there are gods with creativity that are higher power than normal none divine lifeform. I am cosmic then I am pretty aware of what someone can do without being a god. Actually something I was told during my meeting with alien parents after they told me everything we or I can do:

Me: are we gods?
Mom: no, but we are the closest to it.

If that is true I can say that we can do alot of creation and being a god is not necessary to create a world if you are advanced enough. They also told me that we have greater gods than from Earth and it is where I am a bit sad because we could initiate all of you to greater power than what you believe here but humanity is violently defending its beliefs, faith and perception of higher power so... we aint talk much about it. Humans are not ready for the next step.

Whatever the subject is not about gods by itself but it is about the location of the garden of eden on Earth wich I doubt its existence. I don't know where it and I have no idea where it could be then I am not looking to know or to find it because I don't care the story of that book. I am expecting to believe in extraterrestrial gods and I am ready to be introduced to alien religion.


Plus qu'hier et moins que demain / More than yesterday and less than tomorrow
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