Navigation
Homepage Home
Breaking News Breaking News
Aliens and UFOs Aliens and UFOs
The Paranormal The Paranormal
Conspiracy Theories Conspiracy Theories
Entertainment Entertainment
Other Topics Other Topics
Galleries Photo Gallery Other Topics
Help and Support Help & Support Other Topics
Online Now
2 registered users (Xeno, 1 invisible), 41 guests, and 133 spiders.
Key: Staff, VIP, Member
Statistics
Forum Directory39
Topics550
Posts4,010
Members183
Most Online239
Sep 3rd, 2018
Newest Members
nightwalker150, Andrei, MBI1, RECKER_NONENAME, CrystalDreamerx
183 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
EdMan 927
Xeno 911
frankie85 226
Diego 170
MIB1 127
Matt 88
Puff 86
sanna 77
Support our Efforts
About Aliendisc
Month of September
Donors: 1 Raised: $10.00
Top 10 and Donor History
Like Us On Facebook
Advertisement
Previous Thread
Next Thread
New Reply
Print Thread
Rating: 5
Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Alien Life on Mars #2720
Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:06 AM
Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:06 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 170
Sioux City, IA, USA
D
Diego Offline OP
Lieutenant
Diego  Offline OP
Lieutenant
*****
D
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 170
Sioux City, IA, USA
I am curious. What do people think about Alien Life on Mars? We know that men like Percival Lowell and Giovanni Schiappareli saw Martian Canals that they believed were the evidence of a living Civilisation that was struggling to maintain itself. But when NASA got there and took photographs beginning in the 1960's, there were no Canals, and no life of any sort, intelligent or otherwise.

So, QUESTION: Is NASA lying to us? What are we seeing, and what did Lowell and Schiappareli see? I am most curious as to opinions.

Reply Quote
Advertisement
Re: Alien Life on Mars [Re: Diego] #2724
Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:55 AM
Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:55 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 170
Sioux City, IA, USA
D
Diego Offline OP
Lieutenant
Diego  Offline OP
Lieutenant
*****
D
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 170
Sioux City, IA, USA
Percival Lowell wrote three books. Alfred Russell Wallace wrote one. Lowell's first two were "Mars", which I have read, and "Mars and its Canals", which I am reading. Wallace then responded with "Is Mars Habitable?", to which Lowell responded with "Mars as the Abode of Life".

Lowell was a staunch believer in the idea that there was an intelligent civilization on Mars, struggling to maintain itself on a dying planet. He saw in his telescope, as did Giovanni Schiaparelli and others, what Schiaparelli had originally called "canali" in Italian, which literally translates to English as "channels", but was MISTRANSLATED as "canals".

Lowell believed that the canals on Mars, which he actually mapped out in considerable detail (Schiaparelli and others had done this as well, but Lowell's maps were in fact the most developed), were canals designed to transport water from the polar caps to other regions of what he perceived to be a desert planet. He believed that the darker areas that we see in pictures of Mars were in fact areas of vegetation, that were created by the canals bringing water to those areas. The red ochre parts of the planet he considered to be desert, barren areas. Lowell also thought he saw, where the canals intersected with one another (two canals at least, but often more), dark spots, if you will, that he considered to be indicators of oases in the desert.


Reading "Mars" was fairly easy. It was written at the tail end of the XIX Century, somewhere about 1888, or thereabouts (I don't recall exactly when). Reading "Mars and its Canals", which was written in the late 1890's, has proven to be a much more difficult task. For one, the book is considerably longer. The first book was only 150 pages or so. This one is more along the lines of about 600. I do not know for sure, as I am reading both of them on an e-reader.


The second problem with "Mars and its Canals" is that Lowell was an astronomer, and I am not. I know more than the average John Q. Public about the subject, but I am hardly a specialist. He was. He uses a lot of language that I do not begin to comprehend, and some of it was language used in astronomy in the late XIX Century that is no longer used even by astronomers today. So even finding the meaning in something like Wikipedia, or a dictionary, or on the web can prove to be either difficult or impossible.

Furthermore, all the pictures of Mars in the book are his artistic rendition of what he saw in his telescope. Since one could not photograph Mars in those days, he had to draw what he saw. Although he did so in considerable detail, the pictures are certainly not as descriptive as a photograph would be. And they are done in sepia tones, which of course makes it awkward to make anything out. Obviously, colour did not exist in the sense of drawing a picture and then publishing it in a book. anything that was in a published book would be either Black and White or Sepia.

Of course, after Lowell wrote his first two books, Wallace came back with his, that argued that in fact, Mars was NOT habitable, whether by intelligent or unintelligent life. Although I have not read the book yet, I do believe that his opinion had something to do with Mars not having the right atmosphere (or any at all, I am not sure which), and also being too cold to support life.

Lowell then responded with his third book that vociferously defended his assertion that Mars supported life. This was written approximately 1912. Wallace wrote his a bit earlier, perhaps 1908 or so. I may be off by a few years in these dates, but it was the early part of the XX Century.

Lowell believed to the end of his life that Mars supported a civilization of an intelligent nature. His theories actually did influence many science fiction writers, such as Ray Bradbury, and perhaps most significantly, Edgar Rice Burroughs, who wrote twelve books about Mars, the John Carter of Mars series. I have read several of the books, and they are quite good. The first book has also been recently made into two films, one in 2009 (direct to DVD) which was passable (barely, it really was NOT that good), and another that hit the big screen, and really was quite good, but did NOT do well at the box office.

So again, what the heck was Lowell seeing? And it was NOT just him. Others before him and at the same time as he saw, and were seeing, canals on Mars. So, where are the damned things? Now that we have actually sent probes to Mars (heck, humans will probably end up there before 2030, at least if Trump and others have their way), we have seen no evidence of canals. But they were in Lowell's scope!

A few have argued that Lowell's instruments were incorrectly made, and reflected the retina (and the blood vessels in it [hence canals]) of his own eye back at him. I don't accept this. Other people were seeing the canals as well. He was not the only one. And blood vessels are NOT straight. His canals on his map were VERY straight. And in his books, he talks about how straight, and unswerving, the canals of Mars were, which gave him more reason to believe that they were NOT natural features of the landscape, but artificial constructions by intelligent beings.

So, where do we go from here? I would like some answers to some questions! And everyone around me laughs at me, telling me that reading old astronomy books from the late XIX and early XX Centuries is stupid. And yet, I am impelled by some intellectual force to NOT give up my questions, or trying to find answers. And since the people around me tend to think this kind of thing is silly, I come here, where you all might actually accept my questions as in fact NOT being stupid, and perhaps worthy of some consideration.

So, it is my hope that you will all respond to my post here, and give me some feedback on this topic. I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you all in advance.

Reply Quote
Re: Alien Life on Mars [Re: Diego] #2729
Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:45 AM
Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:45 AM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 53
X
Xenu Offline
Lieutenant Junior
Xenu  Offline
Lieutenant Junior
*****
X
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 53
I mean NASA has spent like a billion dollars over the last few decades exploring Mars with probes, just to give you photos and other data on Mars. Are you really purposing that NASA who has yet to be ever really be caught lying to the American public about anything, is lying about an advanced life on Mars based off of a book that was written like almost 100 years ago? I personally would need proof before believing anyone who simply wrote a book in their mom's basement, over dis-believing NASA who launches rockets in space to other planets.

Reply Quote
Re: Alien Life on Mars [Re: Xenu] #2731
Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:26 AM
Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:26 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 170
Sioux City, IA, USA
D
Diego Offline OP
Lieutenant
Diego  Offline OP
Lieutenant
*****
D
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 170
Sioux City, IA, USA
Keep in mind that Percival Lowell was a member of the Boston Brahmin Lowell family. They came from HUGE amounts of money. He inherited enough money to build the Lowell Observatory in Flagstaff, AZ, where in about 1930 (after his death), the planet (or dwarf planet as they now call it) Pluto was discovered. The Lowell Observatory is still used today. This man made the study of Mars his life work. Hardly a man writing from his mother's basement.


All I am saying is the possibility exists that the Government is lying to us. Its not like they have never lied about stuff before. If you believe everything the United States Government tells you, then you have some serious issues.

I would go so far as to say that the man who believes everything the US Government tells him is probably the same man who lives in his mother's basement. Mind you, I am NOT suggesting that man is you. I am merely saying that Governments, any Government, do NOT always tell the truth, and the man who believes that they do is extremely naïve.

Reply Quote
Re: Alien Life on Mars [Re: Diego] #2735
Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:51 AM
Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:51 AM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 53
X
Xenu Offline
Lieutenant Junior
Xenu  Offline
Lieutenant Junior
*****
X
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 53
I never said trust the government. I said NASA has never been caught lying about anything ever as of yet. NASA is a department in the government, not the government. There are plenty of departments in the government that have never done anything untrustworthy. You can't put all the sins of the entire government and force them into NASA. Judge NASA by what NASA does, not the government. I have worked for the federal goverment for 15 years now, does that mean you no longer trust me? Its unfair to simply write off everything the government does simply because reagon used the CIA to run [beep] in for the drug lords in the Contra days. All I am saying is, if they have never given you a reason to mistrust them, why be so quick to mistrust them?

And you say he came from a rich family? Sounds like he was spoiled and lived quite nicely off his parents.

Reply Quote
Re: Alien Life on Mars [Re: Xenu] #2738
Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:37 AM
Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:37 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 170
Sioux City, IA, USA
D
Diego Offline OP
Lieutenant
Diego  Offline OP
Lieutenant
*****
D
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 170
Sioux City, IA, USA
Actually, he never lived off anybody. But he came from Old Money, yes. My father worked for the Federal Government for 28 years. My mother worked for the State of California for 25 years. My brother served in the US Army for 23 years. I never said that everybody in the Government was untrustworthy. You are interpolating things from what I said that I never intended. You are free to do that if you wish, but you will find that the results are generally not accurate.

Lowell was a highly respected scholar in his day. Most scholars in the 1800's came from Old Money. They were the only ones who could afford an education beyond about Fifth Grade. He had a post-Graduate degree from a very respectable school, although I do not recall which. You can look it up on Wikipedia if you want that information. Wikipedia has an excellent article on the man that is well footnoted.

To suggest that because someone over 100 years ago came from Old Money their conclusions are somehow less than valid is not only illogical, it is childish. We must judge Lowell on his accomplishments rather than his heritage.

I do not know whether we can trust NASA or not. Personally, I am inclined to suspect that we cannot. Just because someone has never been caught in a lie doesn't mean they have never lied. There are good reasons to suspect that NASA may not be telling us the whole truth about the Space Program. And that applies to the Russian Space Agency, the Japanese Space Agency, the Chinese Space Agency, and the European Space Agency. I suspect that all of them know things they are not telling the public. I suspect that a lot of things have been classified by various Governments for fear of what people would think or do if they knew.

Let's be honest. From 1948 to 1972 the United States and the USSR were HUGE into Space Research, each one trying to outdo the other to get to the Moon, and to achieve other things. Russia put a man in space before we did. Score one for them. We put a man on the Moon before they did. Score one for us. We continued to put men on the Moon for three years. The USSR/Russia never succeeded in doing the like, and nor has any other nation or group of nations.

All of a sudden, after 1972, NOTHING. No more men going anywhere beyond Earth orbit. Sure, plenty of probes to the Moon, Mars, Venus, and out past Mars. Of course, we have only landed things on the Moon and Mars. The USSR/Russia has managed to get probes down on Venus, although they haven't lasted very long. But no men, ANYWHERE!


Why would that be the case, I wonder? Why would two nations, all gung-ho about sending men as far as they could get them, suddenly stop doing that? Why would the Federal Government of the United States suddenly reduce NASA's money supply from 4% of the national budget to half of 1%? Or at least that is what we are being told. But logically, it makes no sense. I understand that there are a lot of things planet-side that need the attention of the US, Russia, and other nations and groups of nations, but really, there are no more matters pressing us now than there were in the 1970's. The matters pressing us are many of them, the same ones as then. Some are different, sure, but some of the matters pressing us then no longer press us now. Polio has been eradicated world-wide except in three countries, for example.


My only point is that there IS some reason to suspect that NASA may be withholding some of the truth from us, or possibly even outright lying to us. Its not like different departments of the Government have never done so, and, as I said, just because someone has never been CAUGHT in a lie does not mean they have NEVER lied.


Ultimately, it comes down to this: Was Lowell right about some of the stuff he saw on Mars through his telescope, and the Government simply doesn't care to admit it to us? Again, just because you don't like the man's heritage, which was no different than most men of accomplishment in the XIX Century, does not mean you can disparage his achievements as an astronomer. To do so is again, illogical, and rather childish.

Reply Quote
Re: Alien Life on Mars [Re: Xenu] #2747
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:14 AM
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:14 AM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 66
Nas,
W
Who1 Offline
Lieutenant Junior
Who1  Offline
Lieutenant Junior
*****
W
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 66
Nas,
Nasal just said they belive they have found an underground lake on Mars,so life may be on the red planet

Reply Quote
Re: Alien Life on Mars [Re: Diego] #2748
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:15 AM
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:15 AM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 66
Nas,
W
Who1 Offline
Lieutenant Junior
Who1  Offline
Lieutenant Junior
*****
W
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 66
Nas,
Man I really hate spell check that was nasa.

Reply Quote
Re: Alien Life on Mars [Re: Who1] #2751
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:18 AM
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 170
Sioux City, IA, USA
D
Diego Offline OP
Lieutenant
Diego  Offline OP
Lieutenant
*****
D
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 170
Sioux City, IA, USA
I have indeed heard about the underground body of water beneath the South Pole of Mars. Interestingly enough, Edgar Rice Burroughs, in his series John Carter of Mars included an underground Sea beneath the South Pole. :) I am not sure what he would think to be proved right! NASA says that the underground body of water is likely VERY cold, and VERY saline, so, if that is true, I think it would be hard to find intelligent life there. But, it is an interesting development, nonetheless.

Reply Quote
Re: Alien Life on Mars [Re: Diego] #2755
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:25 AM
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:25 AM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 66
Nas,
W
Who1 Offline
Lieutenant Junior
Who1  Offline
Lieutenant Junior
*****
W
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 66
Nas,
Very intriguing, nasa plans it's frist manned landing by on of the poles because of the ice there so it can be used by the astronauts.

Reply Quote
Re: Alien Life on Mars [Re: Who1] #2757
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:27 AM
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:27 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 170
Sioux City, IA, USA
D
Diego Offline OP
Lieutenant
Diego  Offline OP
Lieutenant
*****
D
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 170
Sioux City, IA, USA
That is an interesting thought. Percival Lowell mapped canals, the purpose of which he thought were to bring water from the Poles to the rest of the planet.

Reply Quote
Re: Alien Life on Mars [Re: Diego] #2762
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:36 AM
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:36 AM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 226
frankie85 Offline

Lieutenant Commander
frankie85  Offline

Lieutenant Commander
*****
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 226
I sort of believe that life needs both plants and water to live, on Mars there`s just nothing but dust, water underneath the surface perhaps but still no plants

Last edited by frankie85; Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:37 AM.
Reply Quote
Re: Alien Life on Mars [Re: frankie85] #2765
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:40 AM
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:40 AM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 66
Nas,
W
Who1 Offline
Lieutenant Junior
Who1  Offline
Lieutenant Junior
*****
W
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 66
Nas,
Hello,frankie,there is water on mars,nasa has proven that the poles are ice,probably fresh water,they plan the first manned landings by one

Reply Quote
Re: Alien Life on Mars [Re: frankie85] #2767
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:43 AM
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:43 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 170
Sioux City, IA, USA
D
Diego Offline OP
Lieutenant
Diego  Offline OP
Lieutenant
*****
D
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 170
Sioux City, IA, USA
By definition, plants ARE life. But in terms of INTELLIGENT life, I would say that it needs air and water. Plants would then be necessary as food. But we don't KNOW that there are no plants on Mars. What we DO know is what NASA has told us.

Percival Lowell believed that when you looked at Mars, the reddish ochre portions of the planet were desert, and the greenish coloured portion was vegetation. Perhaps we have only been shown the desert portion, and we have been told that the entire planet looks like that. We cannot know for certain what we are being told.

Reply Quote
Re: Alien Life on Mars [Re: Diego] #2768
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:45 AM
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:45 AM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 66
Nas,
W
Who1 Offline
Lieutenant Junior
Who1  Offline
Lieutenant Junior
*****
W
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 66
Nas,
Very interesting, but remember plants are also needed for oxygen.

Reply Quote
Re: Alien Life on Mars [Re: Who1] #2771
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:48 AM
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:48 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 170
Sioux City, IA, USA
D
Diego Offline OP
Lieutenant
Diego  Offline OP
Lieutenant
*****
D
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 170
Sioux City, IA, USA
That is very true, which leads me to wonder whether NASA is telling us the full truth or not. Unfortunately, I must log off for the moment, as I have to get ready for work. But I shall return to this as soon as I am able. Until then, enjoy. Peace to you. I bid you adieu.

Reply Quote
Re: Alien Life on Mars [Re: Diego] #2773
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:52 AM
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:52 AM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 66
Nas,
W
Who1 Offline
Lieutenant Junior
Who1  Offline
Lieutenant Junior
*****
W
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 66
Nas,
Later please join us agian you have some very unique insights

Reply Quote
Re: Alien Life on Mars [Re: Who1] #2776
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:54 AM
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:54 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 170
Sioux City, IA, USA
D
Diego Offline OP
Lieutenant
Diego  Offline OP
Lieutenant
*****
D
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 170
Sioux City, IA, USA
I shall remain logged in, although I shall leave the computer. So do feel free to leave your insights, and I shall read them upon my return.

Reply Quote
Re: Alien Life on Mars [Re: Diego] #2799
Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:55 AM
Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:55 AM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 53
X
Xenu Offline
Lieutenant Junior
Xenu  Offline
Lieutenant Junior
*****
X
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by Diego

All of a sudden, after 1972, NOTHING. No more men going anywhere beyond Earth orbit. Sure, plenty of probes to the Moon, Mars, Venus, and out past Mars. Of course, we have only landed things on the Moon and Mars. The USSR/Russia has managed to get probes down on Venus, although they haven't lasted very long. But no men, ANYWHERE!


Why would that be the case, I wonder?


That is easy, going to the moon is was one of the most expensive projects in all human history totaling over 26 billion dollars back in the 60's which for inflation now in days would be insanely expensive. And we only did it because as you said we wanted to beat the russians to it. So after so many lunar missions it became apparent that Russia couldn't afford to do it, and we weren't finding anything on the moon to warrant spending that much money there. So they cut funding killing the apollo missions and used that money to feed the cold war with Russia which was costing us about as much in growing and maintaining our nuclear arsonal up from 1,500 nukes to about 5,000. Plus the cold war demanded a larger armada of both naval ships and war planes, both of which are also extremely expensive. Plus all the new spy satellites we wanted to put into orbit.

Basically, the cold war cost us too much money to support deep space missions which served little to no purpose other then to show off the world that we could. Just not worth the price tag

Reply Quote
Re: Alien Life on Mars [Re: Xenu] #2800
Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:08 AM
Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:08 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 170
Sioux City, IA, USA
D
Diego Offline OP
Lieutenant
Diego  Offline OP
Lieutenant
*****
D
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 170
Sioux City, IA, USA
Not worth the price tag TO WHOM? And why not? Yes, going to the Moon WAS expensive. No one disputes that. Yes, the Cold War WAS expensive. No one disputes that either. One could make the argument that we could not afford both. But we DID, for 2 and a half decades. From 1948-1972 we afforded both. Automatically claiming that we suddenly couldn't afford, what we had BEEN affording quite nicely for 2 and a half decades, seems to require more than just your, or anyone's, say-so. It requires proof. I am not convinced.


Think about it. The United States did just fine without a National Department of Education until 1979. In fact, some would argue that our public education system was better before 1979 than it is now. And yet, today, we spend millions of dollars per year on a Department of the Government that many don't even think is necessary. The same could be said of other recent, non-military developments.

In fact, space research in many ways is an EXTENSION of military research. Ok, we hope it is used for peaceful purposes. But let's face it. The first astronauts were all Air Force men. We could have kept the linkage between the military and space, and maintained our research into both, fighting the Soviets on one hand, and funding space research on the other. That we did NOT do this is a puzzle to many people, not least of which includes me.

If we were to take all the money used on the Department of Education, and some of the other less relevant Departments of Government that we have created since the end of the 1970's, that many of us think are either (1), unnecessary, or (2), a total joke, and turn that money over to NASA, we could be A LOT further along in the Space Program than we are at present. Why we do NOT do so is a mystery, not only to me, but many others, including, I am sure, some that are right here on this forum.

Reply Quote
Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Moderated by  Janwat, JoJo, Lycan Moon 

Chat
September
S M T W T F S
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30
Latest Photos
Quantum Cannon Fired into Sun Earlier Today for a CIA Screw up
First Confirmed Image of In-planted Alien Technlogy
Drug Cartel Phased Array 3d Radar
Dr. Reed's Golden Retriever, "Suzy"
The "Obelisk" Spacecraft
"Freddie" EBE Close Encounter



Thanks for visiting the Aliendisc Forums
(v 2.2.3.5, Build 7.6.1.1) · Patch Notes


Your #1 UFO Forum, Paranormal Forum, and
Conspiracy Theory Forum Destination.

Security and Privacy Info

CAREERS | ABOUT | SUPPORT | PRESS

© 2018 ALIENDISC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
All trademarks referenced herein are the properties of their respective owners.